Discussion:
[GAELIC-L] A question about Mackenzie's book of Incantations
(too old to reply)
Marion Gunn
2010-10-03 15:01:40 UTC
Permalink
At the recent bookfair in the Freemasons' Hall, I went on a bit of a
spending spree---as did eGteo!---where our purchases included Makenzie's
"Gaelic Incantations, Charms and Blessings of the Hebrides" (1895),
priced at a very reasonable fifty euro if one could put up with a fair
bit of pencilling in, which I found only mildly irritating, in the hand
of an owner who identified himself in large hand as one "Domhnall Ó
Fótharta, An Caladh, Cloc na Ron, Co na Gaillimhe" [sic].

With pencil eraser to hand, I commenced reading its introduction, which
stayed my hand against erasure, because in it Mackenzie thanks that very
same man for various notes from Ireland he included in his book by way
of comparison to the Gaelic incantations, etc., which form the subject
of it. In passing, I note that another previous owner of Mackenzie's
Incantations of the Hebrides signs himself "James Carney", but I give no
prizes for guessing, as I do, at his identity.

In any case, all that is by way of preamble to my question (below),
which has nothing to do with Irish and everything to do with Gaelic.

My question about an incantation Mackenzie described (1895) as
"ambiguous", of which he has this to say:

"Occasionally one meets not only with obscure phrases, but also with
whole Incantations, the meaning of which is far from clear. Here is one:-
Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan.
Tog dhiom do rosad
'S aghaidh an cabhgaig orm!
Will any learned Gael explain its meaning and purpose?"

Posting this here because, athough GAELIC-L has been serving the
indigenous communities of Man, Scotland and Ireland, together with their
respective diasporae, since 1989, we currently see here mostly
contributions in/about Irish, so this is an appeal to teachers of our
sister languages to please make more of their presence felt on GAELIC-L,
as well as on SEANCHAS-L, which lists we - the seemingly more talkative
Irish - have no wish to monopolize (quite the contrary, as we quickly
get enough of communicating mostly with those whose
views/experiences/traditions are most familiar).

Since it is now well over a 100 years since Mackenzie first posed the
question above which prompted me to post this msg today, is there
anywhere on the net a "learned Gael" who can bring its meaning out if
obscurity for us in our own time?

Dùrachdan,
mg
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)

27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an

Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,

Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland

* ***@egt.ie * ***@egt.ie *
Marion Gunn
2010-10-03 15:07:50 UTC
Permalink
Recte: "aghaidh fir an cabhaig". I really must learn to read over msgs
before hitting SEND.
mg
Post by Marion Gunn
At the recent bookfair in the Freemasons' Hall, I went on a bit of a
spending spree---as did eGteo!---where our purchases included
Makenzie's "Gaelic Incantations, Charms and Blessings of the Hebrides"
(1895), priced at a very reasonable fifty euro if one could put up
with a fair bit of pencilling in, which I found only mildly
irritating, in the hand of an owner who identified himself in large
hand as one "Domhnall Ó Fótharta, An Caladh, Cloc na Ron, Co na
Gaillimhe" [sic].
With pencil eraser to hand, I commenced reading its introduction,
which stayed my hand against erasure, because in it Mackenzie thanks
that very same man for various notes from Ireland he included in his
book by way of comparison to the Gaelic incantations, etc., which form
the subject of it. In passing, I note that another previous owner of
Mackenzie's Incantations of the Hebrides signs himself "James Carney",
but I give no prizes for guessing, as I do, at his identity.
In any case, all that is by way of preamble to my question (below),
which has nothing to do with Irish and everything to do with Gaelic.
My question about an incantation Mackenzie described (1895) as
"Occasionally one meets not only with obscure phrases, but also with
whole Incantations, the meaning of which is far from clear. Here is one:-
Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan.
Tog dhiom do rosad
'S aghaidh an cabhgaig orm!
Will any learned Gael explain its meaning and purpose?"
Posting this here because, athough GAELIC-L has been serving the
indigenous communities of Man, Scotland and Ireland, together with
their respective diasporae, since 1989, we currently see here mostly
contributions in/about Irish, so this is an appeal to teachers of our
sister languages to please make more of their presence felt on
GAELIC-L, as well as on SEANCHAS-L, which lists we - the seemingly
more talkative Irish - have no wish to monopolize (quite the contrary,
as we quickly get enough of communicating mostly with those whose
views/experiences/traditions are most familiar).
Since it is now well over a 100 years since Mackenzie first posed the
question above which prompted me to post this msg today, is there
anywhere on the net a "learned Gael" who can bring its meaning out if
obscurity for us in our own time?
Dùrachdan,
mg
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)
27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an
Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,
Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland
Tom Thomson
2010-10-03 21:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Sgrìobh Marion Gunn 03 October 2010 16:07
Recte: "aghaidh fir an cabhaig". I really must learn to read over msgs before hitting
SEND.
mg
But is the "orm" at the end there or not? It's not clear whether you correction replaces everything to the end of the line, or just inserts fir (and corrects the spelling).

Anyway, this afternoon I walked up a very steep hill in blazing sunlight; when I had been sitting in the shade in a café in the harbour a few minutes earlier, the temperature shown by a thermometer which shared both the shade and the nice sea breeze with me, the temperature was just over 33°C. This made it very easy for me to understand
Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan
when I saw it this evening, because that was exactly how I had felt when I had walked something over 1km: water was pouring from the spot where my forelock used to be (I've grown too old to have a dosán) as from a fountain.

The next two lines are indeed ambiguous. Does "an cabhaig" mean "in a hurry", "in difficulties", or "in the pranger"? But I'm not going to try to make sense of it when I don't know whether the last line ends in "orm" or not, because that one word makes a big difference.

Deagh durachdan

Tom
At the recent bookfair in the Freemasons' Hall, I went on a bit of a spending spree—as did eGteo!—where our purchases included Makenzie's "Gaelic Incantations, Charms and Blessings of the Hebrides" (1895), priced at a very reasonable fifty euro if one could put up with a fair bit of pencilling in, which I found only mildly irritating, in the hand of an owner who identified himself in large hand as one "Domhnall Ó Fótharta, An Caladh, Cloc na Ron, Co na Gaillimhe" [sic].
With pencil eraser to hand, I commenced reading its introduction, which stayed my hand against erasure, because in it Mackenzie thanks that very same man for various notes from Ireland he included in his book by way of comparison to the Gaelic incantations, etc., which form the subject of it. In passing, I note that another previous owner of Mackenzie's Incantations of the Hebrides signs himself "James Carney", but I give no prizes for guessing, as I do, at his identity.
In any case, all that is by way of preamble to my question (below), which has nothing to do with Irish and everything to do with Gaelic.
"Occasionally one meets not only with obscure phrases, but also with whole Incantations, the meaning of which is far from clear. Here is one:-
Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan.
Tog dhiom do rosad
'S aghaidh an cabhgaig orm!
Will any learned Gael explain its meaning and purpose?"
Posting this here because, athough GAELIC-L has been serving the indigenous communities of Man, Scotland and Ireland, together with their respective diasporae, since 1989, we currently see here mostly contributions in/about Irish, so this is an appeal to teachers of our sister languages to please make more of their presence felt on GAELIC-L, as well as on SEANCHAS-L, which lists we - the seemingly more talkative Irish - have no wish to monopolize (quite the contrary, as we quickly get enough of communicating mostly with those whose views/experiences/traditions are most familiar).
Since it is now well over a 100 years since Mackenzie first posed the question above which prompted me to post this msg today, is there anywhere on the net a "learned Gael" who can bring its meaning out if obscurity for us in our own time?
Dùrachdan,
mg
Marion Gunn
2010-10-04 08:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Thomson
But is the "orm" at the end there or not?
It is.
Post by Tom Thomson
It's not clear whether you correction replaces everything to the end of the line, or just inserts fir (and corrects the spelling).
Here it is again, in full:

Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan.
Tog dhiom do rosad
'S aghaidh fir an cabhaig orm!
Post by Tom Thomson
Anyway, this afternoon I walked up a very steep hill in blazing sunlight; when I had been sitting in the shade in a café in the harbour a few minutes earlier, the temperature shown by a thermometer which shared both the shade and the nice sea breeze with me, the temperature was just over 33°C. This made it very easy for me to understand
Uisg' an Easain
Air mo dhosan
when I saw it this evening, because that was exactly how I had felt when I had walked something over 1km: water was pouring from the spot where my forelock used to be (I've grown too old to have a dosán) as from a fountain.
The next two lines are indeed ambiguous. Does "an cabhaig" mean "in a hurry", "in difficulties", or "in the pranger"?
What is "the pranger", Tom? That is yet another word I have not seen
before.
Post by Tom Thomson
But I'm not going to try to make sense of it when I don't know whether the last line ends in "orm" or not, because that one word makes a big difference.
It's the word "rosad" which most puzzles me. Elsewhere in the book,
Mackenzie describes a certain omen as being "Good for Mackintoshes only.
To others it is considered /rosadach/, or untoward". I suppose "rosad"
links to "rosadach", but I'm not about to guess at how that would fit
into the context above.

mg
Post by Tom Thomson
Deagh durachdan
Tom
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)

27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an

Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,

Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland

* ***@egt.ie * ***@egt.ie *
Marion Gunn
2010-10-04 12:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Do Phanu. :-)

THE TOOTHACHE

"I will now briefly deal with the toothache charm. The formula seems to
be the same, or substantially the same, in all Christian countries, and
has reference to St Peter sitting on a marble stone suffering from the
toothchace, and the Lord passing by and healing him."

After giving us Hebridean manifestations of the above, Mackenzie
switches languages to give us this Shetlandic manifestation:

"A Finn came ow'r from Norraway*
Fir ta pit toot'ache away—
Out o' da flesh an' oot o' da bane,
Oot o'da sinew an' oot o' da skane,
Oot o' da skane an' into da stane,
An' dere may du remain!
An' dere may du remain!!
An' dere may du remain!!!

*[Footnote:]
Mr W.T. Dennison informs me that this Incantation was also common in
Orkney, but beginning thus—
T'ree Finnmen cam' fae der heem i' de sea,
Fae de weary worm de folk tae free,
An' dey s'all be paid wi' de white monie!"

Airgead geal, is dócha.

(Passing this to SEANCHAS-L, for the record.)
mg
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)

27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an

Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,

Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland

* ***@egt.ie * ***@egt.ie *
Marion Gunn
2010-10-04 12:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Do Phanu H. :-)

THE TOOTHACHE

"I will now briefly deal with the toothache charm. The formula seems to
be the same, or substantially the same, in all Christian countries, and
has reference to St Peter sitting on a marble stone suffering from the
toothchace, and the Lord passing by and healing him."

After giving us Hebridean manifestations of the above, Mackenzie
switches languages to give us this Shetlandic manifestation:

"A Finn came ow'r from Norraway*
Fir ta pit toot'ache away—
Out o' da flesh an' oot o' da bane,
Oot o'da sinew an' oot o' da skane,
Oot o' da skane an' into da stane,
An' dere may du remain!
An' dere may du remain!!
An' dere may du remain!!!

*[Footnote:]
Mr W.T. Dennison informs me that this Incantation was also common in
Orkney, but beginning thus—
T'ree Finnmen cam' fae der heem i' de sea,
Fae de weary worm de folk tae free,
An' dey s'all be paid wi' de white monie!"

Airgead geal, is dócha.

(Passing this to SEANCHAS-L, for the record.)
mg
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)

27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an

Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,

Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland

* ***@egt.ie * ***@egt.ie *
Tom Thomson
2010-10-04 17:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Sgriobh Marion Gunn: 04 October 2010 09:12
What is "the pranger", Tom? That is yet another word I have not seen before.
I'm getting careless - wrong language. The English is pillory ( a device which restrains someone by the neck and forearms so as to display them for public humiliation and abuse). Pranger is a German word which can either mean pillory or a version where the neck is chained to the lower legs with much the same purpose.
It's the word "rosad" which most puzzles me. Elsewhere in the book, Mackenzie describes a certain omen as being "Good for Mackintoshes only. To others it is considered rosadach, or untoward". I suppose "rosad" links to "rosadach", but I'm not about to guess at how that would fit into the context above.
Rosad is a straighforward word, three possible meanings
1) evil enchantment/spell/charm/bewitchment
2) mischief/mischance/misfortune/disappointment
3) despicable or wothless person

The third meaning doesn't fit here, and in the phrase "Tog dhiom do rosad" the first meaning seems somewhat more likely than the second ("do rosad" good mean "the mischief you have done me", so the second can't be ruled out).

Since "orm" is still there at the end, "'S" is not a coordinating conjunction between two direct objects of tog (which is what it would have to be is "orm" was absent) so it's probably introducing a tense-free description of circumstances (an absolute construction), although it could conceivably be a copular verb. Given the first two lines, "'S aghaidh fir an cabhaig orm" should have to do with a face dripping with sweat (and maybe reddened too, and looking pretty grim), so I don't think either pillory or hurry is the neaning of cabhaig here, but the third meaning difficulties/straits/troubles. So my best guess at the meaning of the last two lines is "Undo your mischief for I look like one in dire straits" or something to that effect (and my "mischief" is intentionally ambiguous - it can either be ordinary mischief or magical mischief). But I think the last line could be interpreted as a threat along the lines of "you can see I'm getting pretty wild", so there's another ambiguity
.

But what the point of the quattrain (which is my take on the phrase "meaning and purpose" used by Mackenzie) I still haven't a clue - being able to translate something doesn't entail knowing what it means (nor vice versa). Maybe one of the academics on the list can help - Micheal Bauer, Caoimhinn, any ideas?

Best Regards

Tom
Marion Gunn
2010-10-05 10:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Tapadh leibh, Tom. As you say, it would be great if we could get some
more active aademics on board to help out with such queries. BTW, the
reason I took my other Mackenzie query under title "Re: A Shetlandic
Toothache Charm (again, from Mackenzie)" away from GAELIC-L and moved it
over to SEANCHAS-L is that (unlike the query below), it has a lot less
to do with language than with folklore (which is the realm of SEANCHAS-L).
mg
Post by Tom Thomson
Sgriobh Marion Gunn: 04 October 2010 09:12
What is "the pranger", Tom? That is yet another word I have not seen before.
I'm getting careless - wrong language. The English is pillory ( a device which restrains someone by the neck and forearms so as to display them for public humiliation and abuse). Pranger is a German word which can either mean pillory or a version where the neck is chained to the lower legs with much the same purpose.
It's the word "rosad" which most puzzles me. Elsewhere in the book, Mackenzie describes a certain omen as being "Good for Mackintoshes only. To others it is considered rosadach, or untoward". I suppose "rosad" links to "rosadach", but I'm not about to guess at how that would fit into the context above.
Rosad is a straighforward word, three possible meanings
1) evil enchantment/spell/charm/bewitchment
2) mischief/mischance/misfortune/disappointment
3) despicable or wothless person
The third meaning doesn't fit here, and in the phrase "Tog dhiom do rosad" the first meaning seems somewhat more likely than the second ("do rosad" good mean "the mischief you have done me", so the second can't be ruled out).
Since "orm" is still there at the end, "'S" is not a coordinating conjunction between two direct objects of tog (which is what it would have to be is "orm" was absent) so it's probably introducing a tense-free description of circumstances (an absolute construction), although it could conceivably be a copular verb. Given the first two lines, "'S aghaidh fir an cabhaig orm" should have to do with a face dripping with sweat (and maybe reddened too, and looking pretty grim), so I don't think either pillory or hurry is the neaning of cabhaig here, but the third meaning difficulties/straits/troubles. So my best guess at the meaning of the last two lines is "Undo your mischief for I look like one in dire straits" or something to that effect (and my "mischief" is intentionally ambiguous - it can either be ordinary mischief or magical mischief). But I think the last line could be interpreted as a threat along the lines of "you can see I'm getting pretty wild", so there's another ambigui
ty.
Post by Tom Thomson
But what the point of the quattrain (which is my take on the phrase "meaning and purpose" used by Mackenzie) I still haven't a clue - being able to translate something doesn't entail knowing what it means (nor vice versa). Maybe one of the academics on the list can help - Micheal Bauer, Caoimhinn, any ideas?
Best Regards
Tom
Tom Thomson
2010-10-06 01:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Sgrìobh Marion Gunn 05 October 2010 11:24
Post by Marion Gunn
Tapadh leibh, Tom. As you say, it would be great if we could get some
more active aademics on board to help out with such queries. BTW, the
reason I took my other Mackenzie query under title "Re: A Shetlandic
Toothache Charm (again, from Mackenzie)" away from GAELIC-L and moved it
over to SEANCHAS-L is that (unlike the query below), it has a lot less
to do with language than with folklore (which is the realm of SEANCHAS-L).
mg
I think too many good people on the SG side don't take Gaelic-L, but only gaidhlig-B and gaidhlig-A; I'll forward some of the messages to date there an see if there's any reply.

Tom

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